MAKE: Noise — Discuss this article

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• Radio Shack piezo transducer pickup
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  Help - I'm getting lots of feed back on my cigar box guitar and I don't know what to do!!
  I put two Radio Shack piezo pickups in my cigar box guitar. Wiring was simple, red to red, black to black, red to positive on input jack, black to negative on input jack. Should there be another ground?? Any suggestions<<

  Posted by ride07 on July 20, 2008 at 10:31:16 Pacific Time

• Ed - Thanks for a great project.
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  Ed,
  
  I would like to personally thank you for a great project. Reading about the CBG brought back all of the fun that I had as a young boy putting together similar devices out of cigar boxes, nails, and kite string. Only problem as a kid is that I never quite knew how to tune the darn things. You've neatly patched that hole in knowledge. I'm collecting parts for my new electric CBG right now and will get back to you with an update once I've put the thing together.
  
  Mike A.

  Posted by silvernitrate on January 31, 2007 at 18:02:25 Pacific Time

• Piezo Buzzer Problem
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  My son and I had fun making a CBG, but the piezo buzzer pickup was a complete failure. We tried three different piezos, and tried running them through a small Fender guitar amp, but we never heard a sound from it. Has anyone actually made this work? Is there a trick to it that we missed?
  
  Thanks, and keep'em coming.

  Posted by abostwick on May 11, 2006 at 20:14:11 Pacific Time

• Piezo Buzzer Problem
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  Here's two sources for pre-wired piezo pickups.
  
  http://www.amazon.com
  Piezo Transducer Interior Mount
  ASIN: B0002O0OUK
  
  http://www.strumstick.com/html_pages/Pickup.htm
  PIEZO TRANSDUCER PICKUP

  Posted by silvernitrate on February 01, 2007 at 07:50:50 Pacific Time

• Piezo Buzzer Problem
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  that happend to me to but i realized that i had the wrong wire for it. i got 24awg "audio cable" 2 conductor plus shield. i got it at radioshack. then i superglued the piezo to a metal electrical box cover which i welded the bridge to pick the sound vibrations from the strings. it sounds really nice.

  Posted by etchant on March 12, 2008 at 10:00:49 Pacific Time

• Piezo Buzzer Problem
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  I got my piezo pickup to work on the first try. Your wire should be shielded, the core of the wire is the hot one, solder that to the centre of the piezo element. The shielding is the ground, solder that to the outside ring of the piezo element. Now, on the other end of the wire, solder the hot wire to where the tip of the jack would touch the plug, and solder the shielding to the other part which is the ground of the plug. And make sure the ground and hot wires never touch. That's it, just two connections on each end, and it works. You're problem lies somewhere in those connections, without seeing it I can't tell, but keep trying. You don't even have to install it to see if it works, just hold the completed pickup in your hand, plug it into your amp (although it sounds MUCH better through a P.A. system) and just tap the pickup with your finger, you should hear the tapping really loudly. Then you can install. Good luck.

  Posted by chrisgoulden on August 16, 2006 at 06:50:07 Pacific Time

• Piezo Buzzer Problem
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  9 times out of 10, if you have a porblem making a transducer it's a wiring problem. Either the disc is shorted out, or there's no connection made. If the amplifier is completely silent you've probably shorted the connection; noise means an open connection.
  
  A few tips for wiring piezos without damaging them:
  
  - If there are alwardy leads attached to the pizeo, you're probably better off using them.
  
  - If there are only solder blobs, or just a silvered layer, do this:
  
  1. Use a fine solder- Radio Shack actually has a very good silver-based solder I use for this- and fine stranded wire.
  
  2. Use a low tempterature iron with a small tip- like 1/8" or smaller.
  
  3. Strip the ends of the wires you're using and tin them. That means coat them with just enough solder to wick onto the wire and coat it- not a blob, just a thin layer.
  
  4. If you're solding to a brass disk, take some very fine abrasive and clean a small patch so the solder will flow better.
  
  5. Put a small drop of solder on the tip of your iron, and touch it to the piezo where you want to attach the wires- just long enough for it to tin the surface.
  
  6. Now lay the wire on the contact point, and again put a drop of solder on your iron, and just touch it to the junction of the wire and piezo. It should flow and join the two together.

  Posted by michaeljedelman on June 22, 2006 at 07:49:54 Pacific Time

• Piezo Buzzer Problem
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  9 times out of

  Posted by michaeljedelman on June 22, 2006 at 07:40:55 Pacific Time

• Piezo Buzzer Problem
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  Hi,
  I got several of mine to work. Did you use the same piezo buzzer shown in the article?
  
  Please let me know. I will send you one if you do not have easy access to Radio Shack.
  
  Send Email to:
  
  ed_vogel@nospamYahoo.com
  
  Of courese remmeber to remove "no spam".
  
  Thanks much and write soon,
  Ed Vogel
  
  
  
  
  

  Posted by EdV on May 11, 2006 at 20:30:17 Pacific Time

• Thanks
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  I've built two CBGs so far, one based on your article and one improvising a bit on what I learned the first time around. I have some pictures of the second one, and to celebrate finishing it I recorded this.
  
  Thanks for writing the article. It's brought me great fun.

  Posted by Dji on May 07, 2006 at 18:17:47 Pacific Time

• Re:Thanks
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  Great Song!
  
  I am honored that you would build something so beautiful from my writing.
  Where did you get the great little tuners?

  Posted by EdV on May 08, 2006 at 17:21:56 Pacific Time

• question about string...
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  I can't find #15 Mason Twine in any hardware store in San francisco, they only carry #18 and everything else. Any suggestion other than the hardstore? If I switch to use the real guitar string instead , do I also need to install the real guitar pegs too? Thanks!

  Posted by ChiT on March 15, 2006 at 12:11:49 Pacific Time

• question about string...
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  A friend of mine gave me a wire-wrapped nylon string that was the the A-string for his acoustic. It sounds really great, and adds a real twangy, buzzy sound that makes it sound very Middle Eastern :D

  Posted by failrate on April 21, 2007 at 21:49:13 Pacific Time

• question about string...
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  A friend of mine gave me a wire-wrapped nylon string that was the the A-string for his acoustic. It sounds really great as the high-A on my cigarbox guitar, and it adds a real twangy, buzzy sound that makes it sound very Middle Eastern :D

  Posted by failrate on April 21, 2007 at 21:48:47 Pacific Time

• question about string...
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  A friend of mine gave me a wire-wrapped nylon string that was the the A-string for his acoustic. It sounds really great, and adds a real twangy, buzzy sound that makes it sound very Middle Eastern :D

  Posted by failrate on April 21, 2007 at 21:47:16 Pacific Time

• question about string...
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  If you use regular guitar strings you may have to fiddle around the knot you use to tie off at the eyebolt.
  
  I have had some luck with monofilament fishing line.
  
  If you don't find anything working for you send me an email:
  
  ed_vogel@yahoo.com
  
  I will send you some #15.
  
  Good luck,
  Ed V.

  Posted by EdV on March 15, 2006 at 12:22:34 Pacific Time

• question about string...
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  A friend of mine gave me a wire-wrapped nylon string that was the the A-string for his acoustic. It sounds really great, and adds a real twangy, buzzy sound that makes it sound very Middle Eastern :D

  Posted by failrate on April 21, 2007 at 21:49:26 Pacific Time

• Why not use a traditional design?
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  Warning: rant ahead!
  
  First, I'll confess that I didn't actually read the original article in the print version of the magazine. Much of that decision has to do with the pictures I saw, and the pictures that I continue to see.
  
  Most cigar box guitars work like an actual guitar: the strings are either attached to the thin wooden top of cigar box (at the "bridge"), or press down directly on the thin wooden top of the cigar box (again, at the "bridge"). The thin wood of the box is a bit like a membrane: it vibrates, causing amplification of the string vibration.
  
  All of the designs I've seen connected the the Make project miss this point entirely, as if the makers have a fundimental lack of understanding of how a wooden stringed instrument such as a guitar of a violin works.
  
  Much of the excitement of making such instruments is learning about a Helmholtz resonator, and about how the vibrations in all parts of the instrument are coupled to each other through physical contact, and how all of this is very accessable to the maker: small variations in design cause very noticable changes in the sound of the instrument. The maker has so much control!
  
  All of this is lost your design. Okay, such a design simplifies the construction... less cutting and aligning, higher probability of success. But to me, the trade off is just too great. The whole point of being a maker is that complex and exciting things are accessable to me... I can tinker with them, and learn to control them. I can have successes and failures that teach me things. I'm not just a consumer who accepts what it given to me as the only option. I never accept the watered down, dumbed down oversimplified version of anything. When I see an object, I see possibility.
  
  I had hoped that Make magazine would be for the me the maker, but looking at your cigar box guitar, it looks to me like the magazine is more for the fifth grade science fair: it's the dumbed down, easy version that fails to excite the maker after day one.
  
  Am I missing any reasons you don't use the traditional bridge-on-the-box design?
  
  Tim Dellinger

  Posted by tmdellinger on February 15, 2006 at 09:37:41 Pacific Time

• Why not use a traditional design?
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  Hey Poindexter,
  You've got to be kidding, right?
  Mike A.

  Posted by silvernitrate on January 31, 2007 at 18:04:38 Pacific Time

• Why not use a traditional design?
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  Hey Poindexter,
  You've got to be kidding, right?
  Mike A.

  Posted by silvernitrate on January 31, 2007 at 18:04:38 Pacific Time

• Why not use a traditional design?
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  You're a shithead.
  
  Why don't you go find some preschool kids and piss on thier coloring books?
  
  Go back to NASA and leave us hobbyists alone.
  
  Asshole.

  Posted by macgyverwasagod on October 27, 2006 at 10:57:43 Pacific Time

• Why not use a traditional design?
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  No, I beleive it is YOU who have missed the point.
  
  Using DISCARDED MATERIALS is the point. If an instrument has proper intonation, and makes the player happy, then the job is well done. The instrument does not need to be finished looking, or push the envelope of acoustic design - the POINT, as you need to see, is simplicity and function.
  
  If you want to rant about proper construction and traditional design, then go to another web site, and take shxtty attitude with you.
  
  Trust me, as a builder, I can understand the need/desire to do things using the best method and tools possible. However, in homemade luthierie, especially using cardboard, tins, and cigar boxes, the proper materials and tools are not usually avaliable.
  
  We prefer to revel in our ability to make something joyful and funtional from limited resources. I'm sure that traditional methods could apply, but who cares?
  
  People like you piss me off. Yes, there could always be a better way, but there's no reason to be rude. Make a suggestion, don't chastise the fellow because he didn't perform the task the way you would have. You should in stead say, "Good job! Here's an idea...". It would be more constructive, which, I think, the whole concept of this site.
  
  Have a nice day. And if you have a better way of doing something, then DO IT, and post your results. Don't trash other people in the midst of thier success.
  
  

  Posted by cardboardluthier on October 27, 2006 at 10:39:37 Pacific Time

• Why not use a traditional design?
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  cardboardluthier - send me an email, i'm going to send you a MAKE shirt, thanks for much for posting your comments!

  Posted by philliptorrone on October 27, 2006 at 14:57:28 Pacific Time

• Why not use a traditional design?
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  I have ot say, while I don't like the way Tim Dellinger worded his remarks but he is absolutley right. The bridge should be in contact with the resonater, in this case, the cigar box.
  
  Also the sound wholes on the design in this video are very small and dotted about. this weakens the resonater and causes it to obsorb a lot of the energy rather than creating sound waves.
  
  Since it is no harder or more expensive to make the instrument correctly I see no reason to make a sub standard instrument.
  
  There is loads of good information on the web and I am afraid the information you provide is rubbish. I suggest anyone looking here searches a little further as there are much better places to get the correct advise and information
  
  http://cigarboxguitars.com/workshops/How_To_Build_A_CBG.php
  
  http://www.planetofthegeeks.com/?p=117
  
  just a couple of examples of the superior information and design techniques that cvan be found in under a minute using good old google.

  Posted by CharlieFarnsbarns on September 27, 2008 at 05:57:05 Pacific Time

• Why not use a traditional design?
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  This cbg was designed to be built by an eight year old and from as few and as inexpensive materials as possible. It is an introduction to tool use for many of these kids. It is a place to start a music education.
  
  I play gigs with mine.
  
  Oh well,
  Ed V.

  Posted by EdV on September 27, 2008 at 17:12:50 Pacific Time

• Why not use a traditional design?
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  Thanks Phil,
  it is always fun to see some activity on the CBG article. I am trying to get some local musicians geared for the jug band contest we have here in Minneapolis. I believe this is year 25.
  
  Thanks to all, including the rocket scientist guy.
  
  Ed V.

  Posted by EdV on October 31, 2006 at 12:17:59 Pacific Time

• Why not use a traditional design?
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  The purpose of this design is to allow a child as young as 8 years old to construct a working musical instrument quickly and from materials easily scounged from a garage or purchased at a hardware store.
  
  Throw one together and play a tune. It has an ok sound and it holds a tune.
  
  Regards,
  Ed Vogel
  
  

  Posted by EdV on February 15, 2006 at 09:58:54 Pacific Time

• Cigarbox Guitar Video
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  That guy's awesome. I made one my self, but after seeing the video I think I screwed up somewhere. XD

  Posted by evil_zman on January 26, 2006 at 19:26:38 Pacific Time

• Cigarbox Guitar Video
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  Hi,
  I am the CBG article author. Let me know if you have a question or problem. I am happy to help if I can.
  
  Ed V.

  Posted by EdV on January 28, 2006 at 22:57:16 Pacific Time

• Alternate Tuning Suggestion
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  After building two CBG's over the holidays (dueling CBG's) with a fellow Maker, we found that tuning the tenor string to an A led to a high velocity (dangerous) string break. One (tested) alternate tuning for the CBG is E (bass), B (middle), E (Tenor).
  
  Make (safely)on,
  wispyhair.

  Posted by wispyhair on January 03, 2006 at 07:46:28 Pacific Time

• Alternate Tuning Suggestion
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  ...we found that tuning the tenor string to an A led to a high velocity (dangerous) string break. One (tested) alternate tuning for the CBG is E (bass), B (middle), E (Tenor).
  
  Thank you for posting that. I also built a CBG over the holidays but have gone through seven strings while trying to tune to AEA. I thought it was just me and was about to post asking that when I saw your post. I will try that alternate tuning tonight.
  

  Posted by jeremyh113 on January 16, 2006 at 08:13:02 Pacific Time

• Alternate Tuning Suggestion
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  Hmmmm. . .
  
  Are you using the two recommended strings? Or perhaps cranking everything up an an octave?
  
  Just curious? I wouldn't want anyone to get whipped on my account.
  
  Ed Vogel

  Posted by EdV on January 28, 2006 at 23:01:11 Pacific Time

• alternative frets
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  some more minimalistic frets can be made by supergluing square wooden toothpicks on the fretboard. this actually works well with non-metallic strings.

  Posted by yanggers on December 09, 2005 at 10:55:59 Pacific Time

• Bart Hopkin
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  If you are interested in building instruments I recommend Bart Hopkin's 'Musical instrument design' .
  It is not only a very easy read for novices, but it is very educational for someone who has been a player for years.
  It is not so much a step-by-step as a discussion on the principles, this means you can make what you like based on a sound theoretical foundation.
  
  I am not him BTW ;)
  

  Posted by Angstrom on December 08, 2005 at 08:42:53 Pacific Time

• Electric Version to Computer?
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  In the little video I thought I heard him say he was going to add the pickup and connect it to his computer? How would I go about doing this and what software would I need?

  Posted by Nygerman on November 26, 2005 at 12:14:55 Pacific Time

• Electric Version to Computer?
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  Hi,
  in the text article in the magazine a piezo pickup is described. It should plugable to to the PC microphone input. Please note I have not tried this as I do not have a PC I with an easily removable soundcard should the input be over driven. OK sure, I am a little paranoid but thats just me.
  
  SW wise you could use the recording SW that is supplied with most PCs. Post processing could be done with Cakewalk I imagine.
  
  I haven't been able to watch Mark's movie so I may not be addressing your questions.
  
  Good luck,
  Ed Vogel

  Posted by EdV on November 27, 2005 at 08:02:51 Pacific Time

• Electric Version to Computer?
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  Do you want a quick way to experiment with guitar pickups on a cigar box guitar? Ever hear of a ribbon microphone? Well, the guitar string functionaly replaces the ribbon in a ribbon microphone. Here is how to do it!
  
  Here is an alternate and innovative way to make a pickup for a cigar box guitar or even a regular guitar. This pickup is based on the fact that a vibrating string in a magnetic field will induce a small voltage in the string itself. The voltage is too low to be much of a value to directly amplify but if you simple connect the low impedance side of a 70 Volt speaker transformer across a single guitar string, one connection behind the nut and the other connction behind the bridge, you can obtain an output from the high impedance side of the transformer (use the highest resistance connection to obtain the highest output) to connect to an amplifier. Simply place a magnet near the string when plunked and listen to that string, and only that string, being amplified. Move the magnet along the string to hear different harmonics of various positions. You can experiment with different smaller transformers that have an approximately 8 ohm primary to 10K, 20K, 50K or 100K secondary impedance. What you want is a high turns ratio. To calculate the turns ratio from published impedance ratings just take the square root of each impedance and divide the result into each other. Example: A 9 ohm to 10,000 ohm transformer would have a turns ratio of 100/3 or 33.3 (numbers chosen for ease of demonstration).
  
  You can connect two strings in series by electrically joining two strings behind the nut and then connect the two low impedance transformer leads to each of these strings behind the bridge. This will allow two strings to come out of a single transformer.
  
  Once you get this direct string pickup working, it will open all kinds of ideas and opportunities. Can you say midi transducer?
  
  Good Plunking
  
  bbsailor

  Posted by bbsailor on December 28, 2005 at 13:00:54 Pacific Time

• Thanks!
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  I made one on these about two years ago and use it as a slide guitar, since
  I could never figure out a good way to do the frets or pickup. Until now.
  
  The action and frets are pretty high which gives its a great twangy, wavery Indian sound, like a tamboura, so I think the next step is to install some sympathetic strings inside the cigar box to make an Electric Cigar Box Sitar

  Posted by cookalexv on November 21, 2005 at 06:34:17 Pacific Time

• Thanks!
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  Do you play gigs with your CBGs? Just curious.
  
  Ed Vogel

  Posted by EdV on December 05, 2005 at 12:10:14 Pacific Time

• Alternate tuners?
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  I am having the hardest time finding eye bolts in London. Anyone have any good ideas for alternate tuners that you could find in a hardware store? I may try super-gluing a wing nut onto the end of a regular bolt... I've tried something like this without gluing the wing nut, but I keep shredding the string.

  Posted by Ben77 on November 14, 2005 at 05:22:37 Pacific Time

• Re: Alternate tuners?
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  Hi,
  cotter pins work well also. However they work in a different way since they are not threaded.
  
  A. At the Store
  1 - Select a cotter pin that is of about 2.5 to 3 inches long and about 3/16" diameter.(I don't think in metric . . .sorry)
  
  2 - Get a piece of scrap wood of the same type you will use for your guitar neck.
  
  4 - Get some drill bits close to the diameter of the cotter pin you picked out.
  
  B - In the shop
  1 - Drill a hole in the scrap wood that is as close as possible to the diameter of the pin half way up it length.(Cotter pins are tapered)
  
  2 - Tap the cotter pin into the hole with a hammer. Turn it a couple of rotations. Tap it back out and repeat. Basically what you are doing here is making a light press fit tapered hole.
  
  3 - If you think it is going to work try building a complete guitar neck. If not resize the hole you drilled until you are satisfied.
  
  If all else fails I will mail you some eyebolts before Boxing Day.
  
  Cheers,
  Ed Vogel
  
  

  Posted by EdV on November 20, 2005 at 09:41:03 Pacific Time

• Re: Alternate tuners?
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  Thanks for the advice!
  
  No need for the eye-bolts, though - I broke down and found some cheap guitar tuners/string. As a test, I used a short piece of wood left over from the main piece I got for this project. I am using some bolts as the nut/bridge and some nails as the frets, and I've got a nice little mountain dulcimer going. It sounds surprisingly good.

  Posted by Ben77 on November 21, 2005 at 05:45:23 Pacific Time

• Home-made instruments rock! (sry for the pun)
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  Home-made instruments have always fasinated me. I even made my own sewer-pipe flute. To play an instrument the best you can, you have to understand the principles, science, and history involved. The best way to do most of that is to make your own!

  Posted by MCPhilip on November 10, 2005 at 20:48:56 Pacific Time